AniPages Discussion Forum

[GATSU]

Just thought someone would be interested in this video which requires the latest Flash and (most likely) IE to be viewed.

[M_Arnold]

Thanks for the link. It works fine without IE.

It's a pretty disappointing video. There are several problems with the translation. Nishido should be Nichido. 'Exio' should be LCD (the Japanese word is ekisho). And Mr. Arisako doesn't say Toei Doga started out making live action films. He says Toei Doga started with theatrical releases before producing TV shows (although this might not be entirely accurate anyway). Hakujaden was Toei Animation's "first live-action production"?! Etc, etc. Fansubs are bad enough, but it's hard to watch real people get mistranslated like this.

Maybe Arisako was just nervous or ill-prepared, but there are a few holes in his history too. Hakujaden was color not black and white. Ken started the same year as Atomu not the year after. Digital production might have begun in 1998, but I was watching the 4th Kitaro series on TV in 1996. And of course Toei's been flirting with foreign audiences since the 50s, and they've been selling titles to many places besides North America for more than just the last twenty-odd years.

It's nice that Toei's reaching out to promote their material, but I hope the studio takes its past and present seriously while it shoots for the future. I know at least some of the employees feel the same way.

I'm curious to see the next episode to find out "what Toei has to say about the state of the industry," but I also hope "The Internet's Most Trusted Anime News Source" does a more trustworthy translation next time.

Michael Arnold

[jsevakis]

Thanks for noting the translation issues. A second revision will be posted soon to address most of them. (BTW, there is a live action Hakujaden produced a couple years before the animated one that WAS black and white, hence our translator's confusion.)

As for some of your corrections to Mr. Arisako, some of them are a little nit-picky. Astroboy premiered on FujiTV on January 1, 1963, while Ookami Shonen Ken started on November 25, about a year later (despite not being the same calendar year). Also, the 4th Gegege no Kitaro series did start in 1996 as you state, but also ran through 1998. Could it be that they switched processes midstream?

Also, just because a particular push towards the Western market was made back then doesn't necessarily mean we saw anime product in the states. The 80s brought Toei a lot of Western collaborations, such as the Transformers movie, and Mapletown Story. There may not have been many Toei Productions that saw US broadcast in that era, but that does not mean Toei didn't make a major attempt. (I must admit, I'm a little surprised someone would think they have a better perspective on this having NOT worked for the company.)

Sorry if you felt disappointed for the video, but hopefully part 2 will be more to your liking. Translation mistakes happen even to the best of us.

[pete]

[GATSU]

jsevakis:

[M_Arnold]

Wow, you already fixed the sub translation! That was fast!
(I wish you had kept the “Exio tablet” part though…)

I've been on both sides of the translation and editing process many times, dealing with my own mistakes and those of others, so I know how hard it is hard to get an accurate product out (that's probably why I'm so picky about it). Thanks for fixing it!

"The feature film Legend of the White Serpent..." (01:07)

Actually you didn't need to change this line of the subtitles. Your translator was correct on this one in the first version. The way the video is edited right now, Arisako does say (mistakenly) that Hakujaden was black and white. This wasn't a translation error.

[jsevakis]

[M_Arnold]

[GATSU]

[jsevakis]

[Reggaenights]

Hey, I'd just like to say thanks to Justin Sevakis and all the ANN staff for putting these together. As an animator working here in the US (but with a life-long fascination with Japanese animation,) I find these ANN tv specials incredibly well put together and quite an par if not better than many a DVD extra.

I was quite surprised to see how Toei deals with RETAS PRO Stylus though, and perhaps the inbetweening process that the animator showed may be a testament to the somewhat cheap look that some of the Toei tv productions have. In comparison to the previous special, on Production IG, it seemed the animators were still working on paper, which was then scanned and colored, and I wonder if the IG shows look so well produced due to that traditional (yet still digital) approach.

Can't wait to see the TMS special, so keep up the good work ANN!

Ré

[Leedar]

I did not expect a full digital process either... how does that work with freelance animators?

And yes, that inbetweening looked a bit off. They'll be using computer line interpolation before you know it.

---

Did the translator intentionally not use English professional animation terminology for accessibility? I don't speak Japanese, but I felt like I picked up a bit of a disconnection between what the animator was saying (esp. with 'genga' and 'dōga') and the subs.

[Ben]

This is a great idea for a project, and this was a clean and nicely produced piece, so thanks for bringing us this look into the innards of Toei, Justin. I'm looking forward to the rest of the series. For what it's worth, I also thought Yoshihiro Kowada was referring to a particular make of tablet the first time I watched it.

Since we're correcting the translation here, I thought I would point out some things I noticed about how I understand certain animation-related terms are to be translated.

Kowada repeatedly refers to "genga", which should be translated as key animation and not original drawings. At 7:00, he refers to "doga", which should be translated as inbetweens and not "middle divisions". Right afterwards, he is not saying "CG Animation" but "shiji shimasu" or "provide instruction" - in other words, 'provide instructions such that the keys are inbetweened to make a smooth movement'. At 7:15 he is saying that he is moving from explaining the genga/key animation to the doga/inbetweens. The translation here as you have it isn't wrong, but I don't see any reason to omit the actual terms he's using. The process is made needlessly vague by doing so, when in fact it is quite clear-cut.

At 6:04, Kowada is saying that he is now creating the layout, not the first "original drawing" (=genga/key frame/key drawing/key animation/key). The layout comes before the genga. I'm a little uncertain about Toei's process in regards to the creation of backgrounds from the layout, but from what I understand, in Japan there are basically two approaches: Either the layout (almost always drawn by the key animator) acts as the basis for the background, or a more detailed line drawing called the haikei genzu is drawn based on the layout, and the color background is created based on the haikei genzu. Haikei genzu is literally "background original drawing" or "background draft". The drawing Kowada has on the screen in this video has the words haikei genzu written on it, but he refers to it as the layout, so the two appear to be synonymous to some extent.

But then again I'm not an animator or anything, so forgive me if any of this is wrong.

Anyway, I found it interesting to see how the digital process clearly affects the look of the final product - not just in terms of the clean sheen, but in terms of how unnaturally smooth and clean the lines can easily be made.

Just listening to the Japanese, honestly I had a hard time following Arisako's line of thought near the end when he's saying they were having a hard time trying to get kids to watch/understand the animation... he seemed to be hemming and hawing a bit. Perhaps it's just my weak spoken Japanese comprehension skills.

It's a well-balanced structure for the piece - some overview with a very in-depth look at the process. Keep up the good work!

[RandomPerson]

Talking about digital in-betweens, I remember that they were doing this at Telecom for a few years - I've noticed they have separate credits for them at the end of some shows. They don't seem to be that popular with the fans either, but sometimes to be honest I can't tell the difference with some purportedly hand-drawn in-betweens nowadays, especially with HD airings of shows. Maybe I haven't been watching the right things.

Personally while I envy the conveniences that digital drawing programs afford (I'd kill for an undo button in real life - and that incredibly handy line-deleting function shown in the video), I can't agree that moving to such production simply amounts to switching paper with LCD screens. There's something different about constructing drawings on a screen with vector tools like that... and while it might work for some designs, frankly speaking I'd be very sad if many studios went that way.

I'm really glad that ANN's going to do a series of videos like this, though - knowledge and insight into the actual production of anime is something most anime communities have been lacking, and proper video interviews like this are something only larger places can do. It's really pleasing to have visitors on a high-traffic website see this sort of video... At least it's improved my opinion of the site a bit.
I agree with Ben about using the right terminology, however. I think there's no harm in using the equivalent terms used in Western productions. Animation production is confusing enough as it is, at least looking at how many different ways some staff credits get translated and interpreted even in official anime releases. (I think ANN encyclopedia editors would be very familiar with this problem.)

Also I think there is one line about "character rolling back his eyes" which sounded more like "ushiro ni aizu wo shiteiru", that is something like "making a sign behind him", if I am not mistaken... (I am certainly not a translator.)

[St. Toledo]