AniPages Discussion Forum

GATSU · Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 442

This was one of those reservations I had which didn't make Ask John, but does anyone think the fact that Arias is directing it might actually hurt 4c and anime in general, since it could lead to more Westerners getting credit and attention over their Asian talent? (For example, see Quentin Tarantino. Rolling Eyes

) What made the Animatrix work was that the Wachowskis may have given the Japanese studios the concepts, but the brothers allowed the directors to do what they wanted with those concepts. Now we're seeing the complete opposite of that in the industry. For example, look at Highlander: Search for Vengeance. It's credited to Kawajiri, but it looks like a mess. But that's because he only animated it, and wasn't involved with the script. This is only a theory, but I think part of the reason that it took manga this long to even make a dent in the U.S. market is that it got co-opted by IMAGE, which borrowed the style[See Gen 13.] and got all the sales in the process. So I'd hate for the next anime success story to be from some similar hack who ends up putting the real artists in the background instead of the foreground.

H Park · Joined: 14 Mar 2007 Posts: 390 Location: San Francisco, USA

I understand your concern about Westerners "stealing" credit for Anime. I wouldn't worry about it too much for right now. From what I read from "Japanamerica" by Roland Kelts, Michael Arias wants to forget working on Animatrix with Hollywood folks for them being "control freaks". He moved to Japan because freedom of creativity is better in Japan. We have to keep in mind that Hollywood entertainment culture doesn't recognize "little people" behind a film. It's all brand name thing.
Also the system doesn't encourage ideas and expressions, although North American and European VFX artists have superior technical skills than Asian counterparts and make better living.
How about here in western hemisphere? How many average download savvy anime fans know about anime creators other than Miyazaki or Otomo? Answer is proabably 0.00000001%. I'm so glad that Arias got chance to work on his dream project. If I was a Japanese studio boss, I would milk out tons of money from Hollywood studios and churn out crappy films. In that way, it's like being a dog that bites feeding hand for messing around with creativity.

What scare me most is that Hollywood studio system tries to alter, even worse, tries to control creativity in Asia to suit their wants.

Tsuka · Joined: 21 Jan 2006 Posts: 130 Location: Bordeaux (France)

I made an interview of Michael Arias two months ago, and he's not the american guy who is sent with money by an huge foreign company to use 4°C to make a film.
Michael Arias lives in Japan since 15 years ago, and works in 4°C since many years.
10 years ago, he was the CG director of Koji Morimoto's Tekkon Kinkreet pilot.
This animated adaptation from the Taiyou Matsumoto's manga is something he wanted to make since a long time.
Eiko Tanaka (4°C president) was one of the persons who incited him to become director.
There's no any foreign financings on that movie.
This project is quite different compared to Animatrix, Kawajiri's Highlander and other co-productions.

Kaonashi · Joined: 20 Jan 2006 Posts: 29 Location: Portugal

I don't think that's going to be a problem. This board cares about the animators but most anime and film fans don't care about that. They care about the director and probably the script. All the rest is just there to help these two achieve their vision.

Also, I would prefer an infusion of different sensibilities that come from non-asian authors, than an even more closed industry.

Tsuka: I didn't know that but it proves that you can't just walk into 4ºC and direct an animated film.

H Park · Joined: 14 Mar 2007 Posts: 390 Location: San Francisco, USA

[quote]Also, I would prefer an infusion of different sensibilities that come from non-asian authors, than an even more closed industry.

I agree. Sometimes whole "Japan-ness" makes anime uninteresting. I mean sensibility of one culture isn't always perfect.

Reggaenights · Joined: 19 Jan 2006 Posts: 54 Location: Los Angeles

Well, whatever the case may be, I saw the film yesterday and hated it! It's a narrative mess, which no matter how great the visuals are, it can't sustain the lack of story, and lack of character. There wasn't even a particular scene that really stood out for me. It felt incredibly heavy handed, and with blatant nods to anime history, which was only begging those "in the know" to put it in the same plateau as the greats to which it alludes. Unfortunately, I haven't read the manga, but it did feel like the type of adaptation that tries to cram the many volumes of the manga into 2 hours. I could go on about this, but maybe this will explain my sentiments:

Mindgame - A+

TekkonKinkreet - C-

Go see TOKIKAKE instead! That deserves far more acknowledgment and exposure.

nicomorr · Joined: 17 Mar 2007 Posts: 14 Location: London, UK.

1. I believe Arias came originally to Japan as a 'support programmer' for ILM or another of the new (at that time) CG firms. My impression is that while instructing them in CG software use he became infected .... heh heh. Good for him - he took the time to learn.

2. Both the regular & limited edition DVDs have been in the top 10 in Japan for several weeks - see ANN.

3. If the Japanese like it & praise it & review it well then I'm gonna give it a large extra chance to have its effect. Why - because any new art takes time to learn to enjoy. My example is always BeBop which I hated & found incomprehensible when I first heard it ......

4. The 'illegal immigration' of art in every form is inevitable. Picasso in Paris and that great quote " ....... but great artists steal".

5. I've decided I rather like it when Western viewers such a jsevakis & Reggaenights write "... I hated it!". You have to be stirred to hate - being bland & blinkered is the true atrocity in my view. EG Hollywood & US TV to have a little dig.

2c,
Nico M

GATSU · Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 442

nico:

nicomorr · Joined: 17 Mar 2007 Posts: 14 Location: London, UK.

H Park · Joined: 14 Mar 2007 Posts: 390 Location: San Francisco, USA

I finally got to watch Tekkon in unsubbed DVD. I don't know why some people say that Tekkon felt like many volumes of manga crammed in. Tekkon manga has only 3 volumes. Anyway I like the film. Overall story is not ultra character-centric animation over focused on every detail of charcter's complexity. It's more environment-centric. I think that approach is very rare among animations full of specifically designed characters designed toward a particular genre.

GATSU · Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 442

nico:

GATSU · Joined: 24 Apr 2006 Posts: 442

I hate resurrecting an old thread with Arias around, but since I've seen it, I've decided he isn't a hack like Quentin, but still a bit of a novice in the adaptation department. Anyway, H Park wanted me to not waste a previous off-topic thread with my rants, so here's what I said:

Actually, for me, the violence wasn't felt through the fights, but the destruction of the kids' community. It seemed to have a bigger impact on them, considering they seemed to be able to take a lot of things the rival gangs could throw at them. What they couldn't take, though, was their world eroding around them. I guess I'll give you credit for making me feel that, too, because I've had some crappy situations like that in the recent past which didn't end as nicely as in the film. (Let's just say that I was probably more like White at the time, and leave it at that.)

I think the reason I didn't go for TK in general, though, was the music didn't work, the subplots dragged down the main plot, and it was trying a little hard to have some street cred. Matsumoto's clearly got the thug/yanki experience down pat, which is probably why I think his manga works better than the film. But then I have a fondness for that genre, so I'm probably biased. Still, the only way to do TK right is to know or be a troubled youth, and I can tell-at least by Anthony's watered-down translated re-write-that one of you didn't have "experience" in that area. (No offense, though, because I know you meant well.)

I disagree with you on City of God, though, because it seemed like it was mostly exploiting the violence without explaining the cause of it; and that felt like it was turning a tragedy into entertainment. I actually did a report on Brazil in a Latin-American Studies class, simply because of my dissatisfaction with the film.

neilworms · Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 51 Location: Chicago IL, U.S.A

Gatsu, show the guy some respect, yesh...

I mean you get a director of an anime actually posting to an anime forum, and all he gets greeted with is constant badgering by someone who had issues with his film. Give it a rest and at least be appreciative that he is here to give people insight in to japanese animation from a perpective that most anime fans will never hear.

I've got a bad feeling that if you keep this BS up you'll chase him away.

Enough is enough already, we get that you don't entirely like Tekkon Kinkreet!

Michael Arias · Joined: 25 Oct 2007 Posts: 35

I think it's pretty clear that Gatsu and I have different tastes. But - really - I do appreciate his passion for animation and the heart he's put into his opinion.

I didn't feel that CITY OF GOD was exploiting violence, and even if it was I don't think cinema (or any art for that matter) has to explain anything. CITY OF GOD is a tragic story and a tragic setting, but it's also entertaining. I don't see any conflict there. It's a movie.

I'm not really sure what you mean about street cred. or troubled youth. And I think you are assuming a great deal about the roles of my staff (Taiyo included). Or perhaps you are just believing the story of the "making of" documentary supplements. Making a movie like this is a very complex mixture of the contribution of hundreds of the artists involved. And the kind of daily drama one experiences creating animation is not easily conveyed. Regardless, you don't know anything about Anthony's or my troubled (or untroubled) youth. Please don't try to explain your dislike for our film by guessing anything about our experience.

m

Ben · Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:52 pm Post subject:

Thank you for being a good sport, Mike. I think everyone here is grateful that you're taking the time to answer their questions. Thanks for joining us. I'll just request of posters that the line of inquiry remain tactful and mature in tone, as some of the posts have been pushing it a bit. There's been some great discussion here lately. Let's keep that constructive vibe.